Precipice
Stories of landslides and community restoration in Muriwai New Zealand following the devastating 13 February 2023 Cyclone Gabrielle.
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Precipice
Building Trusted Relationships. Disaster Recovery and Community Restoration. Ep.14 Precipice Podcast.
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In this episode I speak to Mike Hibbert. Mike is a Muriwai resident and was a key figure in managing communications for Muriwai after Cyclone Gabrielle.
Mike talks about his role as the chair of the Stickered Residents Group, the high trust relationships he built with media, council members and central government, the numerous media interviews he was part of, connecting with CEOs of banks, other businesses and government agencies, the power of electing leaders to represent and speak for the community and gathering information to share.
He explains the issues he was involved in such as housing and welfare, insurance, financial assistance, council timelines, managing donations, market valuations, managed retreats and buy outs, communication with the community, funding negotiations and accommodation.
Mike shares how it felt to be told his family could move back into their home in Motutara Rd more than 9 months after the event after expecting never to return, how it felt to be home and what they had to deal with, and how his role and the event affected him and his family emotionally.
And he gives a great overview of where the Muriwai community is now, 3 years on, and advice he has for other communities going through a similar event.
Precipice launched on July 20th 2026. 3 seasons will be released across 4 weeks and then the full series of 26 episodes will be available for you to listen to at your leisure.
Season 1: Cyclone Gabrielle Hits Muriwai
Season 2: Disaster Recovery and Community Restoration
Season 3: Community Initiatives after a Cyclone
Listen on You Tube https://www.youtube.com/@precipicepodcast
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Hosted and produced by Mandy Jakich. Commissioned and funded by Muriwai Community Association, supported by the Auckland Council Recovery Office.
In this episode I speak to Mike Hibbett. Mike is a Muduay resident and was a key figure in managing communications for Muduay after Cyclone Gabrielle.
SPEAKER_02We got a lot of um attention as a community and a lot of a lot of eyes were on us and helping us and that was um incredibly beneficial.
MandyMike talks about his role as the chair of the Stickered Residence Group, the high trust relationships he built with the media, council members and central government.
SPEAKER_02Just saying this is what we need. We are hurting, we are bleeding, and we need to talk to someone.
MandyThe numerous media interviews he was part of, connecting with CEOs of banks, other businesses and government agencies, the power of electing leaders to represent and speak for the community, and gathering information to share.
SPEAKER_02We need to get some statistics. Okay, we've got to gather that up and you build up a kind of a portfolio of of you know key points, statistics, messages, things that you can rapidly share in in the first 15 seconds of a conversation to grab someone's attention so you can then ask them for what you need them to do for you.
MandyHe explains the issues he was involved in, such as housing and welfare, insurance, financial assistance, council timelines, managing donations, market valuations, managed retreats and buyouts, communication with the community, and funding negotiations. Mike shares how it felt to be told his family could move back into their home in Motor Tower Road more than nine months after the event, after expecting never to return. How it felt to be home and what they had to deal with.
SPEAKER_02So we had Axolotl survived the whole thing. Six months before we got him out. Absolutely fine. He just shrunk a little bit. Absolutely fine.
MandyAnd how his role and the event affected him and his family emotionally. He finishes with a great overview of where the Murawa community is now, three years on, and shares some great advice for other communities.
SPEAKER_02If you want to get shit done, you can't be staring at your phone and doom scrolling, you know. Mike Hibbett. Since 2013, so um yeah, about 12, 13 years. Um before that we lived up in in Waimaku, so we're always been local for a for a long time, and my my dad's got a place up on uh Whiteia, and he's been here since the 80s, uh late 70s, 80s. So um I've had a connection with Motua for most of my life, but um having the family here for the last you know 12, 13 years has been the big biggest part, really.
MandySo you're married to Lily, who's a local ceramicist?
SPEAKER_02Yes, Lily um Lily's a local potter. Um most people around Muddaway know know Lily. Lily and her works of Lil Ceramics. Um yeah, she does pottery for a lot of restaurants and cafes around the country. Um, really busy, has a few other locals helping her out part-time.
MandyMike and Lily have three children.
SPEAKER_02Max, uh Rubik's and Seth all went to Wimelkus School. Um Seth's still there, he's only 11. Um Rubik's is down at uni in uh Victoria now, and Max is working as a chef. Um, but they all grew up here. They all went through the the 2023 cyclone, they all had their own experiences of it.
MandyThe cliff came down behind your home. Can you tell us a little bit about what you were expecting and how you prepared?
SPEAKER_02We were pretty unprepared. I think we were pretty blase about it. Um, you know, uh it we hadn't really experienced anything disastrous before. So uh as a family we were we were really not prepared. The um, you know, like many of us, we expected the storm to be focused on the east coast. Um we live under the under the cliff and the wind just blows over the top of us. We hardly ever get anything when there's a blue wind blowing in from the east. So we were just ready to cozy up and let the rain fall. Um turns out that wasn't how it worked out at all, but yeah, very unprepared.
MandySo on the night, um, when did you start realizing that things were pretty serious?
SPEAKER_02We were um we were cosied up. Um my son, Max, um, packed up a couple of things to head over to his girlfriend's place to stay. Um we were talking about the anniversary floods because when that happened, his girlfriend's um family home got flooded, and he thought he'll go over there, and then in the morning he could help out if there was any issues, and that was sort of his worldview. He only had clothes for like one night, it's very, you know, very light. So he disappeared. We were up in the lounge lighting a fire or something, probably not because only February, but we were getting cozy in the in the lounge. Um I got the youngest off to bed. Um, my daughter Rubik's was um downstairs doing some um animation project she was working on, and we're just cozying up. We could hear the wind coming in, we could hear the rain getting heavier, um, but we were still convinced that we were gonna be alright and there was nothing to panic about. Um, so we were I in particular was very relaxed. Lily was starting to get agitated, she's always had a sensitivity to wind. She hears things blowing around, she starts to get fidgety and nervous. Um so I was I was aware I was wary of her as being kind of a guide on that. Anyway, so we were we were sitting down there and I I saw these lights flashing um through the window on the wall. First of all, you know, torchlight effectively flashing around. I thought that's really weird. Someone's out there in the rain, what are they doing? And then I saw the firetruck lights going past, flashing, red lights on the wall. And then, and we were, you know, the the the the chat groups were going crazy. People were just talking about, you know, oh yeah, are you ready here sorted all? Did you hear that? You know, wow, the wind's getting stronger. And then suddenly our neighbor behind us, Kat, um, sent us a text saying, We're out of here. We've heard this god-awful noise up on the slope, and we're we're we're just gonna go. And um, and I I was very dismissive talking to Lee. I was going, Oh no, she's overreacting, it'll be fine. It's just a tree coming down up behind her, and they'll be alright. Um, lucky they got out because they got smashed, their place got got hit hard. We are we are um a bit further forward and and kind of on a little knoll, and so um again, it gives me the sense of we'll be okay, it'll be fine. Um, but then um we started getting messages from everybody. I think Bex and Seth got hold of us and said, You guys have got to get out, everyone's evacuating. So we we suddenly took it seriously, um, grabbed everybody, went out the door. We had nothing, we had no grab bag or anything. We were absolutely useless. Um jumped in in a couple of the cars, um, both four-wheel drives, and and pulled in, you know, the two dogs, the cat, um, the kids, um, left the chickens, left the axolotl, and and went off down the road. And it was unreal getting getting out of the house and suddenly seeing just how dense the rainfall was, the lack of visibility. I've never been anything like it in my life. So much water. Um, head down towards the surf club, um, go the long way round to the bottom by the surf tower to get in there, and then suddenly it's like there's this lake across the bottom field in front of the surf club, and these teenage kids directing us in their wetsuits what to do, you know, young teens from the surf club out there in the storm directing these adults and families as to what to do, you know. Um oh, there's it's too flooded, you won't be able to park in here, but we've got an inflatable. Do you want us to bring the inflatable over and take you up to the surf club? And it's like, wow, that's intense. Um, you know, we turned around and went the other way and came around the top of the surf club, came down onto the rugby field, and um, and there's just water pouring across the field, moving fast, getting deeper. Um, so we parked up, I parked up the van up there. Lily took her car right down to the club through, you know, calf deep water running fast. Um so when I jumped out, it's like that whole thing of what are you what do you wear on your feet when you're just going through water? So Rubik's and I were barefoot, took our shoes off and just went barefoot through this. You couldn't see a thing. Torrential rain and wind through this fast running water. Um, our neighbour's car was um stuck blocking the road down to the surf club. They got trapped in there and water pouring over the car. We pass that. It was just just a disaster. Uh yeah, so that was our sort of experience on the night. Um, we had the two two dogs in one of the cars, the cat in the other car, and uh so we spent sort of the next hour or so just going backwards and forwards, checking on the pets, and you know, nothing else we could do but just just ride it out until eventually we could all try and fall asleep and wait for the morning.
MandyAnd what were you most concerned about at that stage?
SPEAKER_02Um well, having gotten ourselves out, I was concerned about my son Max and where where he was and was he was he safe. Um I was concerned about my parents. Um they both both live live alone in different places. Um one was on the east, one was up on on White Hier, um and not great communicators. So I was texting, waiting for answers. Then of course, the whole cell system, particularly around Murawa, got just totally overwhelmed by everything. Um, so lost touch with with everybody for a bit. Um, but I was mostly worried about them, but there was nothing I could do, just nothing apart from trying to reach out. Um did get messages back from my son Max that he was all good and he was at the at his girlfriend's place and and things were going well, so that at least was out of my mind to to worry about. It was just a really long night. I think we were all no one got much sleep. Everyone was on the edge of their nerves and um yeah, just finding a corner to curl up and to try and grab a couple of hours before the sun came up and we could actually see what had happened.
MandyAnd but the surf club was flooded.
SPEAKER_02Surf surf club got flooded. When that really started to happen, um uh Lily and Seth had tucked themselves away upstairs in one of the bunk rooms, and I had gone back with Rubik's to sleep in the van. Um she was really worried about her cat, so we were there looking after the cat in the van. Um and so we kind of we kind of missed the worst of the flooding the surf club because we were up in the van on the field, which was good. And then the next morning it was like the sun came out and it was astonishing that it had all kind of passed and we could see the damage and oh my god, overwhelming. It was really surreal. Um you know, people people that we knew and and loved were walking backwards and forwards like they were, you know, just didn't know what was going on. You know, remember um Abe Jew big eyes saying, I'm going home to look for the cat. It's like, yeah, okay, bye. Good luck. Um it's just just a lot of a lot of people overwhelmed and and confused and figuring out what to do. Um and then you start getting news about all the other things that happened overnight, you know, the firefighters um and the uh just all the damage done. Yeah.
MandyWhat was the story with your house? And um and you were obviously red stickered, so can you tell us or talk us through that process and and what you had to do from there?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um well, you know, there was over a hundred homes were stickered, you know, um basically we're all out of out of our homes. Um and like everybody else, we had no idea what was gonna come next. Um, this whole idea of being stickered was a bit weird. Um, what does it mean? Never heard of it before. Who are these people doing it? What right have they got to be on our property making decisions for us? All this stuff going on. Where are we gonna stay tonight? Can't we just go home? Somebody went past our house and said and told us that it looked fine, looked like there's nothing wrong at our place. So I was like, okay, well, we're great, we can go back and we maybe we can sleep there tonight. Be amazing. Um, no idea how long things were gonna drag out for. But our our actual our house was was fine. There was nothing wrong at all with it from the impact of the storm. Um, part of our property uh was um eroded away by a stream that moved um from where it had been about 30-40 metres away, um, with all the debris coming down the cliff and changing the landscape, um, that stream moved right up against our property and and wiped out um a corner of it, taking out the fences and retaining wool. Um but in terms of the house, it was it was fine. Um, thank goodness.
MandyUm what was the actual communication process? How did you find out that you were category three and you couldn't be back in your home?
SPEAKER_02The kim the the the council's communication was obviously um you know, they they didn't have anything to get in place straight away. So um we kind of found out by word of mouth from people, oh you guys, there's a stickering thing going on, people can't go back to their homes, oh you guys have got a red sticker in your letterbox, you know, it just sort of flowed through the community, everyone telling each other what they knew. Um and that that kind of set the landscape on you know, day one, and then I think it was probably day two, or um, the council organized a bit of a get together and to explain what they knew and why it was unsafe. Um, and that kind of set the ball rolling on, you know, we are stickered residents, you know. Yeah, this is our lies from here on. And and and all the way through, you don't know how long things are gonna take, you know. So I think we all felt as a community, we all felt completely out of control. There's nothing that you could plan, nothing you could lean on. Um the processes that the government, central government, and the council and everybody had to go through were kind of sketched out, dates were said, um, milestones were were planned, but it was all very hard to pin down. And you know, we would take things as um if someone set a date, we would interpret as a community that, oh, that's the date we're gonna be done. But no, no, not at all. That was the date a conversation might happen within the council or the government. So we found this again and again, um, expectations just shifting as as we got to learn how this was gonna play out.
MandyCan you talk us through how you were involved with the red sticker group in Muriguai and the things that you actually took the initiative to set up. I know you are really very involved.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like I said before, we hadn't as a family, we had no experience in any kind of an emergency or anything like that. So um, you know, I I was just thinking about myself and thinking about my family and and next steps. Um Luckily we got quite a few people in the community who do think ahead and had thought about this stuff and had been involved in search and rescue and and and and recovery groups and had been involved in the in the anniversary floods in in Cumu and had been volunteering and helping out. And so um those people had sort of started to get it together and say this community is gonna need to get together and get organized. I had no idea and no idea at all. Um, and then um Kat, our neighbor behind us, said uh rang me and said, Hey, look, um, why don't you come down? We're gonna have a little meeting with a few people to try and get uh an organizational group going. And I oh yeah, okay, that's fine. Um I don't know anything about emergencies or anything, but yeah, I'll turn up. Um so we went down there. Um there were a few you know really good minds in the room, um, Kenton, um Jeremy Jones, um saying, This is what's happened and this is what you guys need to do. Um so I mean Jeremy was was in it, he was out of his home. Kenton was adjacent to it up the road observing it. Um, but his you know advice and his direction was really valued in getting us moving. And then we had just really passionate people who were directly involved who just wanted to help get everyone's shit together, right? Um, Maria and Abe, vocal, strong-willed, uh energetic, um, yeah, Carolyn, Elaine, a whole bunch of people just really wanting to get things um get it together. What are we gonna do? How are we gonna cope? Um, and so sort of in the room, I I actually felt I had nothing to offer because um, you know, I wasn't a media person, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not I'm not a rescue person, I'm not a emergency management person. Um but a few people knew that I knew how to talk and that I could put a facade on of confidence, and um and and so I was I was kind of volunteered into chairing, which is what happens to the person who's the least valuable in the room. So um so I ended up chairing the group, um, which was a you know, it's a huge personal experience to have and um you know really valuable for me to do. And I I always wanted to do something to give back to the community. I'd started to get involved in a bit of you know managing the kids' rugby teams and stuff like this, and you know, just giving back a little bit, but this was um was an incredible, you know, shall I call it opportunity? So um, so yeah, so so we got started. Um and luckily the people around me were just incredible and self-organizing and um really uh just needed me to help um pull things together from uh you know standing up and talking and getting people together to get things moving. Um I also got pulled in really early to to meet with some of the more senior people at the council, um Mace Ward and Um and Phil Wilson, who's now the CEO of the council. So they were they were meet up with a bunch of us, um, a small working group, um, I think about four days after the cyclone occurred, to sort of say Murawai's the most affected singular suburb, um, the most people displaced and damaged, and so we want to start here if we're getting this organized. Um council had never done this before, right? This is the the first of its kind in Auckland. Nothing of the scale has happened before. Um, and so they were learning as they go as well. Um, and so having you know Mace Ward and Phil Wilson there, a couple of the of the senior guys in Geotech at the council and just talking it through, um, built some rapidly built some really high trust relationships. I had them all on my speed doll on my phone, um, and we were bouncing ideas off each other about how to move forward, um, which was which was amazing. Um media started to call up and get interested. Central government was interested, obviously, and so we started to arrange um a lot of interviews and meetings and this kind of thing. I mean, I think in the first couple of weeks I would have been interviewed two or three times a day, nearly every day, um, almost breath by breath, heartbeat by heartbeat, from the media wanting to know how things are going.
MandyAnd just for communities listening to this who maybe are going through a similar event, I can imagine it would feel quite daunting and and hard to imagine how you can actually make that connection and build that group with the council who are notoriously hard to pin down or get hold of.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
MandySo what was the what was that little channel at the beginning?
SPEAKER_02We were incredibly lucky. We were so lucky that the council identified us as the people to work with to learn their way through, right? Um I mean, we we later on um we worked extensively with communities and P, Cutty, Cutty, Bethels, um uh West Auckland groups, flooding groups as well, and and sort of um we could help because we were we Always running about a week to a month ahead of everybody else. We could feed them guidance on what was coming up. Um, and I don't know whether it was a plan, but it is how it worked out, and I think it was really good for everybody that the council could learn with us and then make it scalable to help other people. But we we got a lot of um attention as a community and a lot of a lot of eyes were on us and helping us, and that was um incredibly beneficial. So, how are those relationships built? It was actually proactive from the from the council coming to us to pick that up to start with. From the media perspective, we'd there's great media people in the community, they knew who to call, they lined up the right people. We had producers ringing up, producers of all of the major current affairs shows calling up to do everything, short-form kind of interviews for the for the news immediately, um, long-term views on documentary making and everything. There was a lot going on, and um having a community full of people who were in touch and skilled and you know was really powerful for making that that happen. And that combination of building high trust relationships with people in council and central government, building relationships with um the media, um worked really well. And I don't think anyone should be afraid of picking up the phone and ringing people and and saying this is what I need. I mean, I during the whole period I rang CEOs of banks, insurance companies, um, all kinds of government agencies I'd never heard of before, and and drove forward through just saying, This is what we need. We are hurting, we are bleeding, and we need to talk to someone, we need some some direction and some help. And people are willing to step up and help. Um, clearly, when you've got a whole, you know, the whole of Auckland and and a lot of the country in need, people can't answer every phone call. But as a community leader or as someone who wants to pull it together on behalf of a whole community, you can get through because you represent tens, fifties, hundreds of people, and um, and those organizations do want to help and they will answer your calls. Um, acting as an individual, but your own needs, not so much. But when you've got a community behind you that you represent, they do answer the f the phone. Yeah.
MandySo do you think it is sort of good advice for a community to actually bring that group together with that spokesperson or with that sort of leader to help kind of run it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, you do. You need to you need to do that, and you need to um start gathering up your um you know, your media presentation, you know, what your messages need to be, um, so you can really quickly and succinctly grab people's attention and tell them where things are at. Um and a lot of this was stuff, you know, I learned through dealing with everyone else in the in the sticker group um committee, um, people who were saying, we need to get some statistics. And it's like, yeah, actually that tells a great story, we need that. And what else do we need? Oh, we need personal stories. Okay, we've got to gather that up. And you build up a kind of a portfolio of of you know, key points, statistics, messages, things that you can rapidly share in in the first 15 seconds of a conversation to grab someone's attention, so you can then ask them for what you need them to do for you.
MandyAnd what was it that you were trying to achieve with these connections with the Auckland Council people and the government?
SPEAKER_02Our needs sort of shifted over time. They started with housing and welfare immediately, um, insurance, uh, money, particularly for those people who were self-employed or who were immediately plunged into financial difficulty. Um, those things were most important. So the first things we were doing was trying to get some certainty on timelines from council, um, those kinds of things. Um, that kind of morphed over time. I think the next sort of big challenge was managing donations. Um, so much food, clothes came in, we started getting money, people running to ring up and say, we want to donate money, what can we do? Um, and so um little pockets of volunteers cropped up to manage each of those things, each one, everyone bringing in their personal strengths and their personal communications to make it worth work. I mean, the surf club was just completely um inundated with clothes and food, right? Things just came in um from the wider Auckland communities, and um, and so there were people volunteering to get that organized and organise how we can distribute it, and it was it was incredible. And at the same time, everyone had kids to manage, so it was like family days and activities and face painting and art stuff, things to keep the kids um from going crazy and give the parents something to focus the kids on. And then that kind of moved on from that into um the more serious kind of aspects of things. So insurance came through, which was amazing. And love them or hate them. We all lived on the back of the um the accommodation funding that came out of our insurance policies that probably none of us paid attention to when we signed up for those policies. But that that lasted pretty much everyone six months plus to covering rent while we were also all paying mortgages. Um, and they uh they they had other things, they would give us cash, they would find ways to to let us buy clothes and and and you know basic things that we needed to survive. Um so insurance worked out amazingly well. They were probably the single best organized um institution involved.
MandyReally? It's interesting because some people don't don't feel like that at all about insurance companies.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I can understand that. I mean, like now we're seeing the the impact, and there's a lot of us who's um you know our our premiums have doubled and or gone up by 50%, and a number of houses cannot be insured, properties cannot be insured again. Not that many, but that does, it has happened. So yeah, that not uh insurance, we've got to remember what they did for us. It was pretty it was pretty good. We paid for it, right? It's our policies, sure. But no one was as organized as they were to do what we needed at the time. It's pretty weird to thank organizations, but yeah, they were good.
MandyYeah, well that's great. It's good to hear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
MandyAnd then that sort of went on to the whole buyout conversation and process.
SPEAKER_02That was super stressful. Um, I mean, we were all speculating about what would happen, you know. Um the the council started to and the government started to talk about managed retreat and how um we had to expect that we might not all be going back to our homes and it wasn't all gonna be over in a week. And um um talking with Mace Ward at the council on one-on-ones started to become apparent there was a possibility that a lot of houses in Rua would be would have to go. Um and obviously things were umming and R-ring and uncertain, so there was no real clarity, but it was a possibility. Um, so we had to sort of manage that communication to everyone in the community and not get everyone panicking. Um, but again, we had no certainty of timelines. We never knew when we were gonna get a proper update on what was happening. Uh, because it's a very time-consuming process with the council and the government and the funding negotiations and all of that incredibly tedious, drawn-out stuff they went through. Very frustrating. Um So, yeah, then they started talking about how they were going to do buyouts, and they started to um identify those houses that would have to be um bought out and torn down, and those families would have to actually move out of the community and find other places to live. We were all super wary of the fact there was a very limited number of houses and places to live. So um, you know, whether it was 30 houses, 40 houses, 50 houses, 60 houses, where would people go? Um lots of people in different situations, young kids with kids at local schools, people who worked locally, um, teachers that worked locally, emergency service people that worked locally, um, nurses that work locally. These are people who form the framework of not just Murawai but Waimaku and Kumiu as well. And if you pull them out of Murawai and they have to find a new place to live, you know, the the the the trickle-down impact on on everything is is um is big. So um that was a big worry. Where are people gonna go? Um and and and and then and then what what would what payouts would we get, if anything? You know, there's a lot of speculation, we'd get nothing. There was speculation that would that the government and the council would pay the absolute minimum they could for our properties, you know, the um uh CV or 80% of CV, there was a lot of speculation around um how bad it could be.
MandyAnd there was talk of market value.
SPEAKER_02Market value, that was really important. So um while this was going on, um the we we there was recently in in Australia and Queensland, I think it was, they had had a big buyout process um with flooding event over there, and they had published a lot of guidelines and policies around market buyouts and and how they were going to do it. So that document was floating around. The council actually directed me to that to have a good look over. Um someone stumbled across some working paper from a few years ago around managed retreat and emergency payouts, and it was the polar opposite, it was just so negative. It was awful reading. It's like you know, you read that what happened in in Australia, it was very positive and exactly what we wanted. Read about what was in this working paper, it was a train wreck. It was like everyone would be going bankrupt if any of those policies were followed. Um, and that's government-funded study work, so it was terrifying. So we didn't know what was going to happen. Again, I'm on the phone with Mace saying, What do you think's gonna happen? You know, and and and I was I was um very much advocating for the need for um individual valuations on houses at at market rates to take into account um the differences in in people's situations, you know, the the debt or the investment they put into their properties, you know, the debt they are in, their time in life and what they need, and all these other factors that come into play with with what pans out to be the market value of a home, you know, how well maintained it is or not, um, versus the the council valuation, which is which is irrelevant. It doesn't take into account the fact that you've bought at the top of the market with the view of the sea, you know, 10 minutes from the golf course, it doesn't care about that, right? Um so it was completely the wrong tool, um, that kind of valuation. So talking with Mace um Ward at the council about this, and he was saying, well, he favors the market valuation, personally. You know, he couldn't talk on behalf of everybody, but that's what he was he was advocating for. Um, Phil Wilson felt the same way. And um, so then it was a negotiation with central government, and this has nothing to do with us, this is out of our hands. It's the council and the government at the time kind of working out how they can fund uh a managed retreat, a buyout for all these you know unsafe properties. Um and that went on and on and on, and we had no idea where it was gonna land. So m probably, I think from memory it was about four months in, the very first houses were starting to get um valued, and and and that a lot of those were the ones with that had already had the big insurance payout, so it was a little bit easier.
MandySome people didn't get a payout from the government, they just got the insurance if their house was completely destroyed.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And the ones that got the got the bigger payouts, they were kind of warned, you know, don't spend it, right? Because whatever does come through under whatever policy is agreed, they're gonna be clawing back that amount um to offset the total cost of the purchase. So yeah, yeah. I hope no one spent their insurance money um in an unplanned way.
MandyIt would have been quite hard for people if they weren't aware of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, luckily we were talking all the time. Like we had regular community get-togethers down at the Surf Club to talk about what we knew and people could raise questions, and um, so there's a lot of a lot of communication. Um not everybody engaged, there were a lot of people who who just isolated themselves from the community processes and their names would crop up, you know, eight months later saying, Oh, what's going on? And he just wished that they had come along and got involved. But I think a lot of people were terrified and they and they they had ways and means to just get by, and so they they bury their heads in their own little worlds.
MandyAnd there were some older people who were ended up well, some of them, one couple in particular, ended up being looked after by Erin, um Griffin, and you know, it felt like the people who needed that kind of support and assistance got it in the end.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, that's right. Um yeah, yeah, there's there's the the the the elderly, um, especially those who are transitioning from um living in their their home they've lived in their whole lives to maybe moving out to a retirement village, that transition is one of the one of the trickiest um pieces of the puzzle, you know, especially for a house that was that was going to be bought out, um, you know, when would it happen? Would it happen? And now we're still impacted by you know reputational damage on the area, uh, people who who are hanging on to their houses because the you know the the real estate market is weak here, or people who actually have to move out and are kind of forced because of the their time in life or what have you, um you know, impacted in the sluggishness of the real estate market. So yeah, it was a really, really, um, really long journey over that sort of that that main sort of year that we were out. Um, I mean, we we knew our outcome about nine months in, but we we couldn't physically get out of where we were and into our house again for a while. Um so as soon as we got our our our family got our final um information that we'd be going back home, uh it was a shock. We we did not expect it. We were making plans to move elsewhere, we were just not out of the not out of the community, but up to another place up the road. And um, yeah, we'd sort of imagined we were getting some kind of a buyout and what how we would shape the next stage of what we were gonna do, buying a house again and all that kind of stuff. And then to be told that we're moving back in, but all the houses around us are gonna get knocked down. Um, you know, there I mean beside us, there's us and our immediate neighbours, Drew and Tan, that stayed. Um, and then then around us there's you know, within spitting distance, 12 houses being torn down, creating, you know, um a wasteland. Um yeah, we was totally unexpected. Really hard to fathom.
MandyAnd you were renting in Waimoku at that time?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, yeah, we were lucky, really lucky. My my my mother let me come and move into the into her place. So we were we were there um in in Waimoku. Um and that saw us through well, that was for a few months, um, and then we we did have to, you know, move out and and and you know pay rent effectively um for the next sort of yeah, the rest of the year.
MandyThat must must have been quite a shock. How did you feel about actually returning to that house?
SPEAKER_02Um again with that naive optimism that I have, um I was just looking at what had happened, looking at the the cliff behind us and the land around us, and and said, We're gonna be fine. Look, the worst that could happen has happened. It's um you know, we'll be all right. But every time you say something like, it's so unlikely anything else would happen, then you know, Lily would say, That's ridiculous. Like it's all unlikely, it always was unlikely, you know. So um, yeah, everyone was nervous, you know. My my children were nervous. Um, Lily was really nervous about it. Um, you know, I was overly optimistic. Um, but we we went back in there and we and we it was just a mess. You know, everything was damp, mildew, um, neglected everything. You know, I mean you all we've all had the story, everyone moving back home after all those months. Um so the first you know few weeks is basically just cleaning up the disaster.
MandyUm did you manage to get in and get much stuff out?
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, we moved, we moved um pretty much everything, uh, you know, 90% of what we had in there, we we had moved out in the small pockets of time that we were given. So, I mean, uh, like other people would have said in the interviews, I'm sure. I mean, we started off with like a like a 10-minute visit, and then we were given allowance to have a one-hour visit, and then an allowance to have like a two-hour visit, and then like four hours to pack up and move everything else, and that was all spread out over you know three months that process. But when we moved into an empty house, we had to get our stuff stuff out and up there, so we moved everything up there. In fact, we moved twice, we moved into two empty houses, um, and then we and then we moved back again, so we had our entire house moved three times over the space of about um yeah, over the space of nearly a year, which is so stressful. Oh just ridiculous. Oh my god. Nothing survives those moves without without an impact.
MandyDid you have like rat problems and and that kind of thing?
SPEAKER_02Um we didn't have rats, but we did have um our neighbour's cat managed to um find a a place to to get in and and sleep, which was great because they had lost track of it, and so we um you know my my oldest son stumbled across um across Bruce and um and then it was like all about how to get Bruce settled down because he's a bit of a character and uh and then how to catch him and how to return him back to uh back to his family. That was pretty funny. Um so we had Axolotl survived the whole thing six months before we got him out. And he was absolutely fine. Really? He just shrunk a little bit, absolutely fine. Chickens, um, they all vanished and escaped, and then later on the neighbours across the road were saying, Oh, your chickens came and have been living at our house for the last, you know, year. So that was really funny.
MandyEmotionally, it would have had a huge impact on on you all in different ways.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
MandyHow did you find for yourself the emotional impact when you were so sort of busy and focused on the community?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that that's um man, it's like a blur. It's a really long blur because it's a long time to be doing all this stuff. We as a group became um a place to bounce questions off and ask for guidance and experience and coordinate and just help individuals. For me personally, um, shifting my mind out of the the the you know, my work, my family, um, my extended family, the the actual goals of the sticker residence group and obligations we had made for each other and to keep things moving, and then to individual people who would reach out to me directly and ask for guidance on this, that, or the other, and then the council and the government coming back to me and wanting to talk about stuff, and then there was ombudsmans and there was emergency teams planning for the future, and there was managed retreat people wanting to talk about that. So it was it was um if you kind of imagine your life is normally divided into things like family and work and and and maybe some other personal stuff, you know, hobbies and interests, what have you. Um I had to put probably 90% of my energy into the community stuff, and then the other 90% into everything else. Um, and it was pretty exhausting and really, really hard. Um and, you know, at home my wife was dealing with her business, her work, you know, as a as a self-employed person trying to keep things moving and and obligations she had to her customers and the people that worked with her. Um, she had to keep doing that. The kids still need every day, they need all the same stuff they always needed. They've got their own transitions in life that have to be helped with, and then you've got your own personal insurance issues and your banking issues and all of that stuff. Um so yeah, utterly, utterly exhausting, and everyone was wired, and everyone was just trying to get by, no one could make future plans. You can't talk to the bank about anything. Anything. You can't you can't plan anything because you've got no control to the future and nothing you can rely upon until you reach some magical conclusion where it all settles down again. So yeah, utterly, utterly exhausting. And um, you know, I mean as a family, we're we're a pretty positive family, and so we um we never had a fight about any of it or anything like that, but we were definitely um you know, things were creaking. You know, it's not easy. And I know of a lot of families that really struggled with their own dynamics, um, just yeah, being pushed and pulled and losing control. People, adults look need control over their lives, and when that's taken away from you, that's really hard.
MandyWell, obviously you were dealing with things in different ways. How did you find that as a couple?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I think Lily and I are both um pretty uh strong as individuals, and um it's actually quite hard for both of us to open up to each other about our own you know challenges. So it has to kind of reach a bit of a crisis. Um and so we we kind of felt like we were um overlapping uh each other in the home, but we still had so much to do as individuals that um um yeah, we we only occasionally would we kind of really open up about about how sort of stressed we were. Um yeah, yeah.
MandyAnd your children having three kids, you know, they must have all sort of responded in different ways.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Um well Max uh so yeah, Max, so as I said earlier, he he packed up to go out for one night and um then we didn't see him again um for for weeks because of what had happened. He ended up having to live at his girlfriend's house and and never came home. Um yeah, so you know, you you kind of talk about how when you kids reach a certain age, they they you kick them out of the nest and off they go. He fell out of the nest. He just fell out of the nest and just had to had to suddenly adapt to living away from home and um living living with his girlfriend at their at their place. Um and and you know, flatting and all that stuff. The other two, um I mean, yeah, Rubik's is is is probably the most expressive of our kids in terms of her feelings and her experience. She's willing to say when she feels scared and she'll burst into tears when it's right, which is really cool, you know, and we learnt a lot from that. Um so yeah, there was that was it was you know, it was horrible, but um I think we did really well. We came out well.
MandyHow did you actually manage your work? I mean, are you self-employed?
SPEAKER_02Um no, I'm not self-employed, but I do lead a a big team of um back then I had about 60 odd people working for me um in in our office in Vietnam and about um 20 odd in Auckland and lots of customers and busy projects and that kind of stuff. So you know, obviously I'm just part I'm part of a team, there's a great bunch of people working around me, but um but I'm also very customer-centric, and so I wouldn't want to let anyone down, and so um I tried to keep up the pace with everything as best I could and just do everything. Um and it worked out, it worked out fine. You know, there's always a matter of um luck of the draw, you know, if some if the wrong thing hit me at the wrong time, it could all fall down like a house of cards, but we um but we you know we got through that um you know that yeah. Honestly, it was a pleasure to do. I loved it. Um it's a really good team of people involved, and it's not just the stickered residence group, but it's everybody else. I mean, the people I could thank just go on and on and on and on, you know. Um uh uh Hasmith, Alexander, the lawyers, you know, Teresa and and Mike who managed the the trust and and Erin Griffin, who was, you know, on the board of the trust and helping with donations and distribution. Um even like Hallitel Brewery, who've been in the community for a decade or more, you know, um getting involved and and sponsoring stuff. They were they were massively um helpful behind the scenes and and sponsoring things and helping out and delivering, you know, lots of stuff to the community to help us out. Um cooler up the road, doing wellness retreat stuff. Um you know, Claire from the lodge. I mean, she was displaced. I think she her house and her business were displaced, and she was right there, very, very strong. Um, lots of wisdom and experience that she brought to the table, which was really good, and a real calmness, which was amazing. And Kenton, um, oh, I could go on and on, so many.
MandyThree years and three months on, where are we now?
SPEAKER_02We had about sixty-three houses that were um earmarked for demolition, um, and that's just growing. There's actually been more houses that have come up um since the main sort of swathe of well, actually it was Mace Ward said, a sea of red. He could see a sea of red, and it was like that. There's still houses coming up for for that, which which keeps the uncertainty rolling along. Um people never know if they're going to get a call from the council saying, hey, we're revisiting the risk on your property. Um clearly that's that reduces over time, right? So there's less of that. But we've got a lot of empty land. Um it's a total mess. You know, everything's overgrown. My God. What we're learning about invasive species is stuff we never wanted to learn, you know, just I don't know, acres and acres of ginger and wattle and and and cutty grass, and uh it's horrible. Um the birds have come back. There's so many birds, which is which is amazing. Way too many poo keckos, but um yeah, that's so so getting on top of all of that is is a big issue. Um there's still a lot of stormwater issues. There's been the stormwater project that's been ticking around the council for um nearly two years now, going through planning and giving us dates that never come around. Um that's really frustrating because there's water in places it shouldn't be. There's you know, there's still volunteers, people in a community who go across the road to sandbag up the streams to stop the water pouring across the road. And clearly it is the you know the responsibility of Auckland Transport and the City Council to nail those things and fix them. And to be honest, they're bloody easy. It's five minutes with a big digger, and those problems will go away. Um, but for whatever reason, they can't seem to get their heads around doing that. Um, and so we've got people out there uh in the rain, wearing their raincoats, setting up sandbags, even today, three years later, which is just ridiculous and stupid. But that's the way the council's chosen to um not address that problem. Um we've got the community planting groups, we've got a nursery full of plants, they're really keen to get onto these um properties and clean them up and and and and get them fixed up. Um we need the council to step up and and say that's okay. We need the council to actually help. Um they've done a pretty terrible job with property cleaning. There's a lot of um broken glass and bits of concrete on these properties, um, and and weeds have grown over the top of it. So it feels like we're slapping um plasters on top of things that just should have been cleaned up properly. And I know they're busy and that's all expensive, but um it's also pretty crap.
MandyA lot of the fences are still there.
SPEAKER_02Fences are still there, and it's awful to look at. It's it's just you're constantly dragged back into the damage done um through the lack of you know, sorting out the visual appeal. So um so those are all big deals. Yeah, the things we're waiting to be still waiting to be sorted out.
MandyWhat have you learned about the community and about yourself through this experience?
SPEAKER_02We're lucky. We've got the best community in the world. I mean, I think we all have learnt so much about each other and our strengths and the fact that we're all willing to get together and talk and listen. You know, I went to a lot of other communities, um, you know, um PA Kati Kati and and Bethel's all basically the very distributed group, but they all had to kind of come together um to to meet and discuss. So um Pija had reasonable community halls, so they'd all go there to to talk, um going to Ranaware, meeting with the West Auckland groups. Um, we're just really lucky that we're a uh quite a compact geographical area and it was easier to pull people together. Um, so that was amazing. Um, in terms of of myself, my own sort of personal um learnings, uh, it's amazing what you can do if you stay positive and you're transparent and honest and open with people and don't be too um don't try to be evasive or clever. Be honest, be open, build trust. Um make people understand where you're coming from and where the community is coming from. Um everybody at every every level of business leadership and government responds well to transparency and openness. Um so I think you know, it reinforced my own personal beliefs that that's the way to do things, and it worked really well. Um, time management is incredible. Um if you want to get shit done, you can't be staring at your phone and doom scrolling, you know. The day starts at five and it finishes at 10. And you gotta use your time. Um, it's just the way it is. Um so that answers your earlier question about how do you fit it all in. You just gotta do everything and you've got to be really quick. You know, like I I if I was getting a call from the media, that that meeting would be over in two or three minutes. You can't spend 15 minutes thinking about it, you know. You can't you gotta be responsive and and just get into a rhythm of of rapidly pulling your head into what it is that needed the focus.
MandyYeah. And that is hard for a lot of people, but and it sort of highlights the importance of communities finding someone like you who can who can speak confidently and competently about things.
SPEAKER_02These personal qualities you learn by doing as well, though. Like, um Yeah, I mean I've I I've never had to work at the pace that I had to work over that year before. Like I learnt it on the job.
MandyDid you ever find that you kind of fell in a bit of a heap as you because you were sort of on adrenaline and working so hard and and just going for it? Did you find as as things sort of settled down that you kind of had a little bit of a moment?
SPEAKER_02Um I'd say I had more of my moments at the pla places where it wasn't settling down and where there was um where I could see that my personal and family life and home life crises were potentially gonna come unstuck whilst having to deal with everything else. And you know, you've got to prioritize and obviously you put your family first, but um again, no control. So all you can do is all you can do is worry and speculate. And so you work out, you know, you you've got to put that aside and put it on a box, which I think can be unhealthy, but also is the only way to get through.
MandyIs there something hopeful or meaningful you'd like to leave us with?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I th I just think overall um community, the very nature of the word, it's it's it's about people working together and um and the the communities are amazing, and we should all bring people in, and you've got to have the people that can do the various things, and you've got to have the people who say, Hey, we need help, you need to come and join us and help because um I see a need, but I can't personally do it. Um everybody has their different ways of of of of contributing, and some of the people in the very first days of the sticker residence group who just said, Hey, we need you to come along and be part of this, and then hey, we need you to step up and be the chair because no one else is really gonna be able to do it. We're all too overwhelmed, and you seem like the calmest guy in the room. It's like, um, yeah, those people are important, otherwise, I would not have even have turned up. You know, I would have been busy dealing with my own shit. Uh so yeah. No, I look, I just feel people are incredible, communities are incredible, families and friends are incredible. People will help you and you can help them.
MandyPrecipice was commissioned and funded by Mudwai Community Association, supported by the Auckland Council Recovery Office. Artwork by Taylor Williams, soundtrack by local Muduay band Tin People, written in response to Cyclone Gabrielle. Nam Mahi, thank you to the Mudua community for their input and bravery and for sharing their stories. And thank you for listening.
